We need Rain !

Trout Fishing Anywhere

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weightforward
Posts: 60
Joined: Sat Dec 03, 2011 6:00 am

Re: We need Rain !

Post by weightforward » Tue Jun 20, 2017 5:17 pm

Come on CINDY!! Come on CINDY!!

Jimbo Roberts
Posts: 1213
Joined: Fri Nov 08, 2002 8:26 am
Location: San Antonio, TX

Re: We need Rain !

Post by Jimbo Roberts » Wed Jun 21, 2017 8:51 am

I wish Cindy would move west and get us the rain we need, but it's not looking good.
The best chance for rain is Saturday and Sunday and not related to the hurricane.
And I hate to say it, but reaching pool this late in June is probably not going to happen.
We were real close but the lake is dropping fast now. The upper basin has been relatively dry.
Still we should have some hold-over in the upper river. Now it's looking like only water above Rio has a good chance at getting our Trout through to next fall. I wish it were different but it is what it is......

Tom tom tom tom.....
Tom tom tom tom.....
Tom tom tom tom.....

Jimbo

rkyslone
Posts: 25
Joined: Thu Oct 29, 2015 5:00 pm

Re: We need Rain !

Post by rkyslone » Wed Jun 21, 2017 9:33 am

If GBRA continues to release ~160 all Summer like they have been so far the trout should be okay though, right? It's just if they go down below that they start to die off?

jblidell
Posts: 73
Joined: Mon Jan 12, 2015 9:43 am

Re: We need Rain !

Post by jblidell » Thu Jun 22, 2017 10:48 am

rkyslone wrote:If GBRA continues to release ~160 all Summer like they have been so far the trout should be okay though, right? It's just if they go down below that they start to die off?
well they've lowered the flows but it's if the water temp gets above 70-72 which we're already starting to see.

Jimbo Roberts
Posts: 1213
Joined: Fri Nov 08, 2002 8:26 am
Location: San Antonio, TX

Re: We need Rain !

Post by Jimbo Roberts » Thu Jun 22, 2017 11:08 am

It's all about cold water and how far downstream the flows will push it before the air temperatures warm it up.
So first it's about how cold the water is to begin with. This season the water temperatures of the releases are about 60 degrees, most seasons will would see mid-50's, but that takes several normal years to develop. Then it's about air temperatures. The hotter the air temps the faster the water warms. The short term variables are the flows (or more specifically the velocity of the water) and cloud cover. The higher the flows, the greater the velocity, and the farther the cold water will move downstream before warming to a critical level for the Trout. Clouds will also limit the amount of solar radiation directly on the water and how fast that factor can influence warming. Unfortunately we see a lot of blue bird days in the summer.

If we don't get the lake to pool (909'msl) we won't get guaranteed flows of 150cfs. The typical Texas summers are dry from mid June to mid September. Without substantial rain, the lake will continue to drop, inflows to the lake will drop, and GBRA will drop the releases from the dam. I would expect the flows to drop to gradually to around 90-100cfs. That would limit holdover down to about Whitewater and that would be only about 15% of the population we stocked.

This is the battle we fight every year and usually loose. The facts are the Guadalupe is the most southern Trout fishery in the US, in a place it wouldn't have a chance to exist if it were not for a 150 deep lake upstream. The river is also positioned on the edge of a great desert to the southwest. That desert is there because of a combination of geological conditions and terrain that restricts normal and regular rains. The Hill Country, where the headwaters originate does a good job of collecting what moisture does come from the gulf and also from the pacific. Unfortunately again it comes in spurts and causes floods. The variation of the flows in the upper basin is great and thus the need for a flood control project like Canyon Lake in the first place.

So there you have it. It's been since 2010 since we had cold sustaining flows from the dam. We came very close this season to getting those flows. We were less than a 2" from pool on the trigger date for the Flow Agreement. A good 1-2" rain upstream would have brought the lake to pool, but the rains that were here missed the upper basin. The lake stands at 908.53'msl and the releases from the dam are currently 116cfs. They will probably bump flows a little for the July 4th and Labor Day weekends, but that's not really going to help. For this fishery to thrive we need mid-50's releases from the dam and 250cfs. Maybe next year..... We can only hope.

Jimbo

Jimbo Roberts
Posts: 1213
Joined: Fri Nov 08, 2002 8:26 am
Location: San Antonio, TX

Re: We need Rain !

Post by Jimbo Roberts » Tue Aug 22, 2017 5:22 pm

Come on Harvey !!!!!
Please just the right amount in the right spot on the upper Guadalupe.

Tom tom tom tom.....
Tom tom tom tom.....
Tom tom tom tom.....

Jimbo

Jimbo Roberts
Posts: 1213
Joined: Fri Nov 08, 2002 8:26 am
Location: San Antonio, TX

Re: We need Rain !

Post by Jimbo Roberts » Fri Aug 25, 2017 12:57 am

Guess what?
It's raining.
He's called Harvey.
Apparently when I asked the rain to follow me home, Someone was listening.
The real trick to something like this, is getting just enough rain in the right place to fill Canyon Lake to pool, but not much over that. It's about to get interesting here in Texas!

Jimbo

Texjbq
Posts: 81
Joined: Tue Sep 23, 2014 3:42 pm
Location: San Marcos, TX

Re: We need Rain !

Post by Texjbq » Fri Aug 25, 2017 2:23 pm

In terms of water for the lake I think Harvey's going to hit it just right. The lake will get to pool and then probably just a bit more. Not enough to cause them open have to open it up. Sadly the folks along the lower lower Guad might be in some real trouble.

RayB
Posts: 22
Joined: Sat Dec 01, 2012 2:59 pm

Re: We need Rain !

Post by RayB » Sun Aug 27, 2017 9:23 pm

Jimbo, put those darn drums away for a while!!!! :lol:

Alex Argyros
Posts: 388
Joined: Mon Apr 23, 2007 12:52 pm
Location: Austin

Re: We need Rain !

Post by Alex Argyros » Mon Aug 28, 2017 2:44 pm

Did Harvey ever get much west of Austin? Did we get rains along the upper Guad?

pontoonman
Posts: 75
Joined: Sun Mar 02, 2008 3:39 pm

Re: We need Rain !

Post by pontoonman » Mon Aug 28, 2017 5:13 pm

Flow rate of the upper Guad river has barely moved after the rains, hope it was enough to make a difference.

PM

Jimbo Roberts
Posts: 1213
Joined: Fri Nov 08, 2002 8:26 am
Location: San Antonio, TX

Re: We need Rain !

Post by Jimbo Roberts » Tue Aug 29, 2017 12:34 am

Nope, the lake moved up about 1/3 of a foot. It's still 2 feet away from pool and it's not going to make it any time soon.
Here in San Antonio, at my house, we received just under 2 1/2 inches of rain. and much less over the upper Guadalupe basin.
It did keep the river cool for a few days, but that's about it.
The good news is the cold water understory in the lake is still there. The water coming from the dam is relatively cool. We will have holdover in the upper 3-4 miles of the river that is pretty good. Down from there it's a matter of degrees. Water below Little Ponderosa is not going to hold hardly anything if past years are any gage. We could get some holdover in the Rio to Pott's, but it's likely to be spotty.
I am working on renewing leases and arranging the stocking for next year. It's going to be better because we will have at least some holdover. We are also going to get more (2000lbs) and bigger Browns this season.

Jimbo

Alex Argyros
Posts: 388
Joined: Mon Apr 23, 2007 12:52 pm
Location: Austin

Re: We need Rain !

Post by Alex Argyros » Tue Aug 29, 2017 4:49 am

Oh well. Given what's happening in Houston, I hate hoping for another hurricane; perhaps some nice lingering storms.

At any rate, it's good that we'll have some holdovers. And it's great that we have Jimbo working tirelessly for the organization. He's the most important holdover.

Texjbq
Posts: 81
Joined: Tue Sep 23, 2014 3:42 pm
Location: San Marcos, TX

Re: We need Rain !

Post by Texjbq » Tue Aug 29, 2017 10:04 am

We are also going to get more (2000lbs) and bigger Browns this season.
Well that's exciting to hear. Is that 2000lbs of rainbows or browns? Or a mix?

Jimbo Roberts
Posts: 1213
Joined: Fri Nov 08, 2002 8:26 am
Location: San Antonio, TX

Re: We need Rain !

Post by Jimbo Roberts » Tue Aug 29, 2017 10:29 am

2,000lbs of Browns, that's 1,000lbs more than the last 2 years.

Jimbo

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